MSR at Sports Reviewer (February 2001)

This is an interesting MSR review from the old 'Sports Reviewer' website.  While they gave the game 'top marks', they did raise some valid criticisms about the Kudos system and lack of night lighting.  It was written in February 2001. 

"While the Kudos system is innovative, it is slightly flawed, but not to the point of hampering the game. MSR heavily favors Style points (i.e. power sliding) over skill points. You can cheat and open up all the chapters, but I do not really see the point in cheating. Just because you cheat does not mean that MSR is any easier. Sure, you can prematurely open up all the chapters, but you will not be able to win very many races unless you complete each chapter and open up better cars.

In short, MSR’s developers made an excellent first attempt with the Kudos system. It is not perfect, but I really enjoy the concept. I hope that MSR’s sequel or another developer carries the promise to fruition. An easy adjustment would be to require Skill or Style in certain races. Another adjustment would allow players to tailor their driving style towards Skill or Style. This would allow simulation style players to rack up plenty of Skill points without relying on and abusing powerslides."

"If MSR has a real negative it is the lack of ample lighting during some of the night races. The races in Tokyo usually have enough light to navigate successfully. I found San Francisco hit or miss, but London is usually a total pain in the rump for me during night sessions.

I do not really know how to put my finger on the problem, but night races seem to have poor lighting and actual view distance is just not long enough to provide adequate reaction time for turns. London seems to be the worst offender, especially tracks that make use of parks and other low light areas.

The problem is not crippling, instead the "night light" issue is really just another opportunity (manager speak for a challenge). I have spoken to other MSR owners about this issue and the camp seems to be evenly divided between poor night lighting effects and sucky, whiny players. It should be obvious to Sports Reviewers’ readers that I actually fan into both camps!"

You can read the full review at the following archived weblink: Sports Reviewer's MSR Review (Archived Website)

My Speed Challenge quest

I have always been fascinated by this mode, mainly because Dreamarena players managed such fast times while being forced to use automatic gears with ABS on.  It is very easy to assume that cheating must have been involved, especially as it was quite easy to hack an MSR gamesave or use a Action Replay/Xploder DC device.  

I managed to beat the Dreamarena competition times just over 12 years ago, however I used manual gears and switched ABS off.  I did this by creating Time Trial VMU files for each Speed Challenge course.  However this year, I decided to try and beat those times under the same conditions - automatic gears and ABS on.  After a lot of time and effort, I finally managed to beat them (just)!  It's not all good news though; the London course involved hitting the railings so that could have been the strategy used during the competition.  While I try to race as cleanly as possible, 'playing dirty' is sometimes the only way.  I'll keep trying for a faster, cleaner London time.

Here are the original Dreamarena competition winning times:

Here are my results:

...and here are the videos for each course, including a bonus 'best corner' collection.  All runs were done in 60hz mode; 50hz mode has not been optimised and runs significantly slower.  It took a while getting used to the automatic gears and the 'unwanted downshifts' when you lose speed during certain turns.

It's a shame that the best Dreamcast racing players (who competed in the Ferrari F355 Challenge and Sega Rally 2 internet rankings) were not involved.  If they were, I believe we would have seen some genuine unbeatable lap times!

For more information on the Speed Challenge mode & its Dreamarena competition, please see my blogpost at:  https://msrdreamcast.blogspot.com/2013/04/speed-challenge-competition_3.html

Project Gotham: World Street Racer (Japanese name for PGR1)

I have just discovered that Project Gotham Racing (PGR1) was called 'Project Gotham: World Street Racer' in Japan.  

The Japanese release of MSR was cancelled so maybe Microsoft/Bizarre were trying to establish a clear link between the two titles and make Japanese Dreamcast fans assume that MSR had been moved onto XBOX.  Who knows?

Opel Speedster / Vauxhall VX220 Charity Auction

This has a very tenuous link to Metropolis Street Racer, however Sega Europe themselves put out this press release on 25 October 2000.  

A real version of one of the cars that features in Metropolis Street Racer is to be auctioned on the Internet. The first Opel Speedster (the UK version is the Vauxhall VX220) carries a plaque with the serial number 0001 on the dashboard and has all the makings of a collector's car - especially since the silver roadster will not simply be sold but auctioned on the internet. The first Europe-wide online auction of an automobile takes place from October 27 to November 5 [2000] at www.qxl.com/speedster (auction company now closed.  Subsequently renamed 'Tradus' and then acquired by a large conglomerate in 2008).

Leading European internet auction house QXL.com (closed 2008) will present Opel's mid-engined sports car on its homepage as well as its national pages. Bidders can surf to their local QXL website in Belgium, Germany, Great Britain, France, Italy, the Netherlands, and Spain to pick up information in their own language and bid in their country's currency. There is no minimum bid for Opel Speedster number 0001.

The real winner of the auction, however, is not necessarily the highest bidder. The cheque for the open-top, two-seater sports car will be donated in full to the SOS Children's Villages, an organization which takes care of orphans and destitute children. The charity helps a total of more than 300,000 individuals. More information on SOS Children's Villages is available at www.sos-kd.org (now https://www.sos-childrensvillages.org/).

The Speedster won the Cabrio of the Year award at this year's Geneva Motor Show. The 147-horsepower two-seater is Opel's first mid-engined sports car and the first Opel to use aluminum and composite materials for the body and chassis. The winner of the QXL auction will enjoy the Speedster's fast, sure-footed cornering, a zero-to-100 sprint in under six seconds and a top speed of 220 km/h. Customers can find out more about the Speedster at www.opel.com (link still works but contains no info about this car anymore.  Just google 'Opel Speedster' or 'Vauxhall VX220' instead).

The auction website has been archived here. The winning bid was £23,511 from a Swiss buyer on 5 November 2000. 

Original Sega Europe press release archive

Gaming Age & Daily Radar interviews with Richard Jacques

Gaming Age did this interview with Richard about the MSR soundtrack.  It was conducted in early March 2000, about 8 months before the game's European/PAL release.  The most notable part is the list of the equipment used to produce the music.

Richard Jacque's Gaming Age Interview (Part 1) 

Richard Jacque's Gaming Age Interview (Part 2)

As Gaming Age is still an active website, I can only post links to the interview (only now accessible via Wayback).  

Daily Radar UK also did a shorter interview conducted after the game's release (late 2000/early 2001).

Richard Jacques Daily Radar UK Interview

MSR TV Adverts & Trailers

Sega Europe really tried to push Metropolis Street Racer by creating TV adverts and purchasing prominent 'time slots' for their broadcast.   Here is a news article from the UK's Official Dreamcast Magazine about this:

The first advert is around 30 seconds long.  The English language version (left) has what sounds like a female vocal being put through a 'digital meatgrinder' - I sincerely hope that was an encoding error!  The French version (right) thankfully lacks this sound.

Update: I've also just found a German TV advert on Youtube (see below)!  Completely different to the ones above. 

 There were also trailers present on VHS promotional tapes.  I think the one below was displayed at the 'Dreamcast Premiere' event (Empire Cinema in Leicester Square, London.  3 September 2000) although the Gary Numan "Cars" track has been replaced.

The final one (below) is just a longer version of the introduction found on the game disc.

Unfortunately none of this really worked out as Metropolis Street Racer sold less than 20,000 copies in Europe.  Far more copies were sold in the USA with less hype and a standard magazine advert/web advert campaign.

Bad Driving = More Kudos!

A video showing that reckless power sliding awards much higher Kudos than careful driving (non Hot Lap / Timed Run courses).  This is because Skill / No Penalty Kudos are 'fixed' and offer lower scores than Style Kudos.  Therefore any penalty deductions (for hitting the sides or other cars) are more than made up by the excess Style Kudos you earn.

Chapter 17 - Event 6 (one-on-one challenge vs. Mitsubishi Eclipse '99)

Course: London - St James's Park - Medium - Birdcage Walk East II (St James' M-5)

My car: Nissan Skyline GTR (Manual Gears / No ABS)

Skilled and careful driving total.  25 second head start to opponent 

Kudos score: 1281.8 (Skill: 112.9, Style: 368, No Penalties: 160.  Joker played so score doubled).

Reckless power sliding.  60 second head start to myself

Kudos score: 3792 (Skill: 0, Style: 2216, Penalties: -320.  Joker played so score doubled).

3792 vs 1281.8 is more than double so if you want record kudos scores, sadly this is the path you need to take.  However if you are disciplined and aim for skilled, careful driving with a touch of style, I believe you will enjoy the game much more (just don't expect many kudos records).

Please note, due to a bug in the game (all versions), the record display screen does not show the 'Head Start' seconds given to the CPU or yourself.  It will only display as 0.0s (no head start/head start given to  CPU) or -0.0s (head start given to yourself)

Multiplayer mode video

A short video showing the 'split match play' feature in multiplayer mode.  I firstly drove the whole race in the Clio and once I passed the finish line, the CPU took over the running of that car.  I then drove the RV8 while the CPU was driving the Clio around the course.

 

The MSR fan sites that never were

Following on from my 2015 post about MSR fan sites, here are two that were never completed.

MSR.PT.VU / MSR.HOME.SAPO.PT

I saw this advertised on an old topic at dreamcast.onlineconsoles.com.  This Portugese site was created at the end of April 2004 and promised rankings, ghost/time trials and tutorials.  However these features were still 'under construction' on early 2005 (according to Wayback) and no further updates ever occurred. It disappeared offline sometime in the 2010's.

Wayback link: http://web.archive.org/web/20050207223648/http://www.msr.pt.vu

MSR.B0X.COM

This was advertised on a topic from Bizarre Creations' old Ezboard forum.  Unfortunately just this homepage was made advertising the site was coming on 20 March 2001.  Nothing else happened sadly and disappeared offline shortly after. 

Wayback link: https://web.archive.org/web/20010509141257/http://msr.b0x.com/

Critical Reviews

I enjoy reading critical reviews for MSR as some of them raise valid points.  The game had a lot of hype in the UK Dreamcast press and some people were disappointed when it was eventually released.  Sadly these reviews are no longer online, however they have been preserved at Archive.org.

"While MSR is a welcome change in the identikit-driving genre, the game has some series flaws with its basic design, which unwind the whole experience. By relying so heavily on the original 'Kudos' scoring system, the simple problems are highlighted throughout the lengthy single player campaign and unfortunately the experience is ruined as a result."

NSTC-UK Rating: 6/10

Link to full review: NTSC-UK MSR Review

But not that everyone thinks I don't like MSR. MSR is a good racing game, but nothing more. In my opinion, it just didn't turn out to be the high-flyer I was hoping for. However, I recommend the game to every racing fan. Everyone else should borrow the game first and test it enough." 

Planet-Sega.de Rating: 86%

Link to full review: Planet-Sega.de MSR Review (translated from German)

"When MSR is good, it’s very good, and its innovations deserve a lot of credit for making the game so engaging, once you get over the initial hump. Sadly, there are too many little aggravations, too many flawed design decisions and too many visual annoyances disrupting the experience to keep it from being the perfect Dreamcast racing game that some players might have been expecting. To say nothing of MC H*m* and company. Wey hey!"

Link to full review: Electric Playground Review

"MSR" is a universe of drifting and cornering, accelerating and power-steering, peppy music and decent graphics that, while worth a visit from time to time via a rental ticket price, it's too unrewarding and punishing a formula for the hardest of the hardcore to plow the cash for. Test-drive before you buy... another Infogrames driving game that is (he, he, he)!

DC-Swirl Review: 3.5 / 5

Link to full review: DC Swirl Review

Defunct homebrew MSR Ranking 2006 - 2018 (Matching Service from dcarena.de)

When I first began researching MSR in-depth back in 2010-2012, I came across this German fan page.

This ranking was initially set up back in 2006.  Unfortunately by the time I found it, the facility had more or less been abandoned; the upload/login feature was broken as membership was closed, and you could only download existing ghosts.  I made a video 13 years ago showing some of MSR's Dreamarena homepages on my Dreamcast (via the Wayback Machine) and I included this ranking within it to demonstrate downloads.

Sadly the whole site went offline back in 2018.  For more information on dcarena.de, please see the following link: https://www.sega-dc.de/dreamcast/DCArena.de

Old MSR player's Speed Challenge internet rankings

Just over a decade ago, I found a player who kept a record of his internet rankings for the Speed Challenge.  No footage of Dreamarena and times aren't spectacular, but nice to have come across an MSR player from the 2000-2001 time period.  This particular webpage is no longer online but has been archived (link below).  

"Now for my MSR Netrankings:

Metropolis Street Racer World Speed Challenge: London
Date	Ranking	Time
08/04/2001	227	1:17"170
30/05/2001	231	As Above
25/09/2001	239	As Above
23/02/2002	245	As Above
Date	Ranking	Time

Metropolis Street Racer World Speed Challenge: San Francisco
Date	Ranking	Time
08/04/2001	141	1:08"060
30/05/2001	146	As Above
25/09/2001	156	As Above
23/02/2002	160	As Above
Date	Ranking	Time

Metropolis Street Racer World Speed Challenge: Tokyo
Date	Ranking	Time
08/04/2001	198	1:04"603
30/05/2001	137!?	As Above
25/09/2001	222	As Above
23/02/2002	615!!	As Above
Date	Ranking	Time

Metropolis Street Racer World Speed Challenge: Total Of All 3 Circuits
Date	Ranking	Time
08/04/2001	96!!	3:29"833
30/05/2001	100	As Above
25/09/2001	109	As Above
23/02/2002	117	As Above
Date	Ranking	Time

Not bad eh? 96th on the time of all 3 circuits combined!! Now down to 117th, which ain't bad considering I haven't played MSR in months."

Original link:

 https://web.archive.org/web/20081015015951/http://www.geocities.com/aliensrcooluk/mysite/mynetrankings.html

Sega Europe October 2000 Press Release

It's definitely not a 'choose-your-car, chose your-circuit' racer, completing track after track in a repetitive championship. Metropolis Street Racer is the ultimate test of skill, style and precision, with an ever-expanding series of exciting driving challenges - it's all about Kudos.

Kudos is earned from winning, being an impressive driver to watch and the personal kudos of knowing you're the fastest, most stylish and exciting racer. Kudos is the ultimate style and dexterity and success rating in MSR, it's how you progress through the game. Your kudos rating is used to earn the chance to challenge for new cars and to unlock the later stages of the game and is achieved through: -

• Speed - winning, beating the best times, etc.
• Style - clean laps, powerslides, 'showy' driving etc.
• Gambling - set your own goals to beat, on your own or against other cars
• However any sloppy, dangerous or clumsily driving and you lose kudos.

London, Tokyo and San Francisco are the city backdrops. Modelled down to accurate and intricate detail everything is there, major landmarks to the bushes in people's gardens. The Dreamcast's built in clock is used to provide Real Time so as you race you visually notice the change between dawn and dusk. As you begin only 3 simple routes will be open, one in each city but as the game progresses, you will unlock routes which increase in length, complexity and pace.

MSR is divided into a number of chapters, with the ultimate goal of each chapter being to win the car on offer. Each Chapter contains a range of different driving and racing Stages. You can repeat a stage at anytime and with any car you own to try to beat your kudos. But the kudos recorded is that of the last race, so it's for the drivers who can take risks and gamble. Each chapter offers special races, events and challenges. These are only available at certain times (e.g. night races) or for those with particular cars.

Each of the game's 25 Chapters comprises ten stages of various types and offers you the potential to unlock a new car as a goal for completion. Unlocking the car makes it available for you in the games Car Showroom - available for a 'no obligation' test drive. If you like it you can them challenge to own it, customise it and add it to your personal garage. Each stage is designed to test every area of the driver's ability - from racing skills through to manoeuvring competence.

From a choice of over 40 cars from some of the world's leading car manufacturers. Cars have been accurately modelled both visually, dynamically and sounds specifically recorded to give you a true driving experience. You can be one of the first to drive a virtual VX220, Vauxhall's exciting new sports car or in conjunction with Dreamarena, Sega's internet portal who have teamed up with Vauxhall, win a VX220 through an exclusive online MSR competition.

The essential car stereo blasts out a range of tunes, from dance to jazz to J-pop offering a choice of radio stations or virtual CDs. Each city has three radio stations tuned in; London listeners have a choice of Capital Jazz, Underground (dance) and West Central One (general pop). Each station has jingles, adverts and DJ's - in Japanese for Tokyo!

Multiplayer battles allow up to eight players to compete for kudos. Players can either bring along their own personal garage on VM, or can 'borrow' cars from other players' garages.

League tables will be collated on Dreamarena from scores uploaded from around the world. The Opel / Vauxhall Internet Challenge, the ultimate test of skill is recorded via the VM and Internet. This challenge takes you to three of the most difficult circuits - one in each city - to race in the prestigious VX220. Racing tips can be picked up by using the VM to download the actual lap, learn how they do it and better their performance.

"The realism that MSR achieves is a combination of intricate detail, sound and realtime. The experience is a break through for racing games; the focus is not just on speed but style. MSR gives endless replay value and rewards the player constantly." - Alison Turner Director of UK Marketing

Metropolis Street racer will be in stores November 2000.

Angry MSR player email to EDGE Magazine

Taken from UK Edge Magazine - Issue 93 (January 2001).

MSR Developer Chat (from 2011)

In 2011, Bizarre Creations closed down along with their website and forum.  Shortly after, a new forum called 'Strange Developments' was created where ex-Bizarre Creations staff and fans hung out briefly.  The new forum wasn't around for long, probably due to the ex-staff finding new jobs and people just going their separate ways.  It was on this particular forum forum that I asked a question about MSR physics and ended up having correspondence with a staff member.  I haven't released it publicly until now (I've sent it to a few people privately over the years) however it's now a good time to do so.  

My questions/responses are in light blue and the staff replies are in yellow. Nothing said is 'industry sensitive'.

Firstly I'd like to give my condolences regarding the closure of Bizarre Creations. As I'm basically a retro gamer, I never experienced their later work (PGR3 onwards) but games like MSR, Fur Fighters and PGR1/2 were great titles and I'm glad to have played them. I hope everyone involved with Bizarre finds happiness in their new careers.

Here is an old Japanese promotional video for MSR: 

The last 5 seconds are the most interesting. Although this is an early version, the car gets serious air climbing the San Francisco hill! If any of the developers are watching, why were the cars grounded in the final version? It doesn't make MSR any less fun for me but it would be interesting to know the reasons why.

Finally I've know I've asked this before on Bizarre's own forum but did anybody take a copy of the old MSR rankings hosted on Dreamarena. I know it's a longshot as this service closed over 9 years ago but it would be great to see what lap times the best players achieved. I have already asked Sega but they are unable to help.

Many thanks in advance.

it kept us from having to solve various physics/collision problems at the time,e.g. what to do when the cars overturn..

The physics model used exaggerated moments of inertia to stylize the sliding behaviour. I figured it was a game about cornering,laptimes, driving on flat surfaces, not a stunt driving game with jumps etc so I approximated appropriately .. S.F. wasn't something I accounted for. Needed to ensure that physics/collision/AI update was always negligable CPU load compared to graphics, back on those machines the cpu spent most of its time transforming & clipping geometry..

Hi all, as I hadn't received a reply in nearly 3 months I thought no-one was able to answer my question. Just returned here now on the off-chance it had. :)

I appreciate the response, I always thought the reason for the lack of airbourne cars was down to the car manufacturers themselves. I guess you had responsibilty for the physics in MSR? If so I'd like to thank you as MSR has one of the most fun Time Attack modes I've ever played! I know it's probably not what you intended - after all MSR was meant to be all about the Kudos - however stripping the game down to just a fast car and course unlocks the games enduring appeal. It's the reason I'm still playing the game in 2011!

On a sidenote I think the handling in the demo version of MSR (found on the disk with the Official DC magazine) has more in common with PGR 1/2 than MSR itself!

MSR was also the reason I got my Dreamcast back online last year to upload/download ghost cars. I've written an FAQ, made some Youtube videos and even made a webpage that DC users can download my ghosts from. If you are interested the links are below:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/dreamcast/197914-metropolis-street-racer/faqs/60758 (some info outdated)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soKJIF7FEsA&playnext=1&list=PL24E648DEB802C6F6

http://msr.netii.net/ (Now Offline). 

PS I still have a working MSR watch that came with my first copy in November 2000:

RJAY63 wrote:

always thought the reason for the lack of airbourne cars was down to the car manufacturers themselves.

Now that you mention it, that was indeed the case. Justifies why I approximated it.

But san-fransisco came as a suprise and we didn't have time to change the game system - the game was already delayed. we could have done it (we had airborne in f197 and in a 3DFX tech demo we did after F1) but any change late on is bad.

RJAY63 wrote:

I guess you had responsibilty for the physics in MSR?...

I know it's probably not what you intended - after all MSR was meant to be all about the Kudos - however stripping the game down to just a fast car and course unlocks the games enduring appeal.

on the contrary, to me Kudos was an afterthought,

I got into doing driving games back in 1995 for 2 reasons [1] the fun physics of car handling and [2] the graphics engines on the then new 3d consoles & the associated tools for building tracks/scenery ... so thanks for appreciating the game boiled down just to the bits I did & that mattered to me :)

All old hat now. An arcadey-driving sim wont set the world alight in 2011 but I was coincidently doing another car physics model as part of my new experiments.

Hence the coincidence in seeing the old nostalgic posts. I dont remember all the numbers but I remember the formulas exactly and the reasoning behind it. But my focus remains on the search for new ideas ...

Thank you for your message. MSR's handling has a 'coin-op racer' feel and as a fan of titles like Daytona, Wangan Midnight MT and Outrun 2 SP it is something I appreciate. It's a lot more fun to drift in MSR than it is in the PGR games although PGR 1/2 had much better Kudos systems.

I still have the playable demo of MSR that came with the official DC magazine and think the handling here had more in common with PGR than the final version of MSR itself! For example in the demo, drifting could be instigated by releasing the accelerator; something you couldn't do in the final version of MSR but could do in the later PGR games. Do you know why this change happened?

Finally this is a longshot but do you have an archive of the old Dreamarena rankings for MSR, specifically Time Attack? I know it was possible to hack the VMU and alter times (so any ranking may be distorted) but it would be interesting to see what the best players achieved. I have already approached Sega but they said they are unable to help.

Thanks once again for a great game!

nope, dont have ANY old materials. all owned by others and lost.

I wish I had my old sourcecode, but by the letter of the law i can't. sold my soul there. Just memories of bits in my head.

>>"For example in the demo, drifting could be instigated by releasing the accelerator; something you couldn't do in the final version of MSR but could do in the later PGR games. Do you know why this change happened? "

now I dont remember specifically, but you're describing trailing throttle oversteer & load-transfer, i.e. the way the pitching affects grip front & back.

When i started with it realistic- producing the effect you describe - i usually got the feedback that it was too hard (or numerically unstable) :) so you put assists / clamps / tweeks in to make it easier (and more stable).

I might have endstopped it? i.e set an artificial limit between front & rear grip.

what i DO remember is that with load transfer in 3d physics the car could become quite unstable i.e. going over polygon bumps could de-stabilize it by throwing sudden shocks through the springs, spinning the car out because the front dug in or the back lifted off.

It changed alot regularly, fine line between 'too hard' 'too realistic' 'too fake' and 'fun'.

it was difficult to balance it so that it could both slide AND be controllable / catchable.

With F1, I had load transfer (&grip affected by wings) but NOT calculated though the actual 3d springs; with MSR it was true 3D physics, which i first did in a demo for 3dfx.

In later xbox/360 games, the world mesh could be smoother, and 60fps update=better springs. DC was just 200mhz with CPU moving every polygon so only a tiny fraction of that cpu is left for physics.. then 700mhz xbox with hardware TnL - much easier. then 3ghz xbox 360 'steamroller'. pgr 4 even moved physics onto spare cores. spoilt compared to the early days.

Even though more realistic there are still some weird effects in both games, the actual physics model did change, with different approximations.

>>"MSR's handling has a 'coin-op racer' feel and as a fan of titles like Daytona, Wangan Midnight MT and Outrun 2 SP it is something I appreciate. "

MSR is still based on slightly more realistic physics model but with stylized numbers, compared to daytona etc. sega games & other coin ops games often used 'pivot steering' (ridge racer =worst offender!) I think whereas mine were based on per-wheel forces. (i wouldn't criticize those amazing pioneering Sega coin-ops though! don't get me wrong there).

The so called 'coinop feel' was down to the car holding maximum grip past the limit & other assists over the real physics, wheras a real car loses grip when you slide, a greater tendancy to just spin out when you make a mistake.

I'm just dealing with this again this very minute, messing with the self-aligning-torque by a different method to try and make slides more holdable.

It is very nostalgic looking at the old videos, thanks for the uploads :)

Firstly thanks again for your interest in our old work . :)

I was looking at one of your comments "no more braking sliding more" and my memory might not be as good as I think, I seem to remember I might have actually INCREASED GRIP WHEN BRAKING, jogged by your comments.

My question is , could you confirm this for me ? hard to tell how. Let me know if you think thats the case from how you drive it, do you get a different cornering radius.. one might be able to measure it in video footage - horizon turn rate vs speedometer, accelerating vs braking

[i'd always wanted to leave physics-debug in with grip arrows etc as ingame option:) but there was no interest ]

In my postbizarre physics model, my rough values "by eye alone" gave me 2.5g cornering*(!!!) and I've just reduced it to 1.7 after actually looking at numbers.

But I'm thinking I have an instinctive preference for cars with >2g cornering and it wouldn't suprise me if thats what MSR was actually doing when you brake.

Why not increase grip ALL THE TIME? - because it gives you mad 0-60 times. my current virtual car is doing 0-60 in about 2 seconds. :)

I remember the amazing f355 having a feel of being able to hardly turn.

I came from the F1 game where cars can have 4g cornering due to downforce typically, so I was 'spoilt' :) and remember being shocked by realistic simple road cars that manage mere 1-1.3g cornering. boring..

Now with you talking about 'arcadey feel' that might be what did it more so than the 'extended peak grip'... its' a gratuitous Hack that enables people who dont like braking to get round corners.

I would like to be able to get an arcadey feel without needing such extreme measures as grip scale with braking .. I prefer increased grip all the time or adding virtual downforce.. ( a downforce that you preseve when going sideways)

I did get nostalgic after acti closure and looked at the whole of bizarre as one continuous act F1 onward. (its' so scary to see peeps calling F1,MSR 'retro games' - which they are now - because the whole 15 years was just one continous 'blur' for me)

Thanks for your reply. In the playable demo the normal brake has a limited role when cornering; it's really just used to slow your car beforehand. In the final version however, the best way to take a corner is to turn and brake together while alternating the throttle; if it's a sharp turn you may need to add a touch of handbrake or release the accelerator completely. The final version is certainly a lot easy to drive than the demo; you can compare the two videos for the same course below taking into account different cars were used in each:

Demo: 

Final (Retail Version):

Hope this helps... :)

Thanks for the info - that confirms it.

>>"the best way to take a corner is to turn and brake together while alternating the throttle"

- that 's the unintended consequence discovered by players of my increasing grip while you brake.

I did that to avoid that 'unable to turn' feeling that you get when you go from an F1 car to say an MX5 (which is what i'd basically done, F1->MSR). I'm still shocked by it when i play other 'realistic' style racers.

Alternating throttle&brake is really messy .. thats' not what I intended :(

Perhaps I should have put in mild F1 style downforce instead, exaggerated to kick in at low speeds.

Damn where's that time machine so I can go back and fix it!

1.5-2g cornering is still not as mad as 4g F1 but much more fun than reality. Reality is a bit crap usually, which is why we have games to escape with :)

Thanks for your response, glad I could help. On a side note you may wish to check out these links showing Bizarre doing some French TV spots for MSR (see my old blogpost 'MSR Early Videos' to view these).

 

MSR Widescreen Argument (Google Groups/Usenet Archive)

Original Google Groups/Usenet topic 
Staff comment in bold.  Main reply in yellow

Just a curious observation.

In the options screen for the multiplayer mode there is an option to set the
screen to a widescreen mode. This works well enough, giving the cars the
correct proportions when viewed on a widescreen tv.
Question is, why is this option not available in the single player mode?? As
it is you either have to have squat cars in widescreen mode or force the tv
into 4:3 ratio - what a waste!!

I guess that's a minor gripe considering all the stuff that this game does
do well, but it would have been nice, a la F355.

----

Messing around with the in-game camera options appears to change the field of
view, perhaps somewhere in there you can find a bodge that looks better in 16:9.

----

Bizzare Creations probably forgot to put it in around about the same
time they forgot to take out all the bugs that f*****g ruin the game.

----

There is a wide screen mode in there if you beat one of the special
races(cant remember which one sorry) you get widescreen option in the cheat
modes menu see Dave you instant gratification freak its in there you just
have to earn it also in the cheat menu (but unlocked seperatly) is the

sickening bubble mode and the very funny silly cheat

----

No, that's a joke, right? You have to earn widescreen? F**k me, do you have to earn sound?

---

I'm still laughing after reading your message :)

---

Its in there right after adjust camera in the cheat modes menu along with
force time and silly cheat.I am not the idiot who made it like that I am
just the guy who posted to tell that poor sod who can't figure it out where
it is complete the second special btw

I don't think he was having a go at you, just at the fact that you have to
'earn' something which should be standars in games. i.e. widescreen mode.
I have a widescreen TV and didn't see a WS mode and so assumed it didn't
have one.
Putting it in as a cheat seems a bit strange.

Good game all the same.

---

You access widescreen mode by doing the challenge which requires the mustang
car. The car can be accessed on a special challenge, I think it`s the
chapter with the vauxhall vx220 under the cover. Let me say that the ratio
looks right on a widescreen tv but it doesn`t show any more picture either
side, but cuts off quite abit top and bottom which defeats the point of
widescreen really.

---

Damn that. Just like that crap widescreen mode in fur fighters(same
creators).
MSR would look great in anamorphic widescreen :(
Ah well. The dc is not connected to my widescreen anyway...
That sony(!) 4:3 tv gives a much better image.

---

F.Y.I. the widescreen mode in Fur Fighters is true 16:9 widescreen with a
much wider viewing angle and not just cut off top and bottom.
Get your facts right next time.

---

It is anamorphic but just doesn`t look right with how much it has took of

the top and bottom

---

I'm sorry but it is not anamorphic widescreen.
It loses a lot of the resolution in fur fighters. Anamorphic widescreen is
without borders.
Get your facts right...

---

In 60Hz and widescreen settings on my Toshiba it's [Fur Fighters] certainly full 16:9
widescreen and without borders. Whether it's anamorphic or not, it looks
great. The real advantage of widescreen mode is for Fluffmatch where for 2
players the split screen is a vertical split, which I find much easier than
the non-widescreen mode horizontal split.

---

The Widescreen mode keeps everything at the same perspective, the screen
shows the same visuals height wise but there is extra width and a much wider
viewing angle with far more information at the side of the screen. And
anamorphic widescreen does have borders top and bottom on all standard TV's
and even (dependant on aspect ratio) small borders on Widescreen TV's. The
widescreen mode in Fur Fighters was added whilst checking it on a Sony
Widescreen TV to keep the aspect ratio as close as possible to widescreen
movies. The vertical resolution has to drop to do this as you have a maximum
horizontal resolution of 640, so the vertical dropped from 480 to 357 to
create the borders required to achieve a letterbox effect.

If you require any further information on this please contact me at this
address [email redacted]

Nick Wiswell
Associate Producer
Bizarre Creations

----

Wah ?! This is just nonsense, and shows they have no understanding of
widescreen TV standards or even what `anamorphic' means.

"The Widescreen mode keeps everything at the same perspective, the
screen shows the same visuals height wise but there is extra
width and a much wider viewing angle with far more information at
the side of the screen."

Fair enough. All OK so far.

"And anamorphic widescreen does have borders top and bottom on all
standard TV's and even (dependant on aspect ratio) small borders
on Widescreen TV's"

And now the confusion starts. He's muddled up widescreen movies with
widescreen TV. Wide TV has an aspect ratio of 16:9 (or 1.77:1).
Movies are typically either 1.85:1 or 2.35:1, so of course you're
going to get black borders somewhere (at the sides if you're watching
an old academy ratio film or 4:3 TV broadcast). 16:9 is a compromise.
He should be comparing with 16:9 TV broadcasts, which do exactly fill
the screen. (And watch out for those stupid 14:9 broadcasts which UK
broadcasters sometimes use to annoy everyone).

And the comment about anamorphic pictures having borders on a 4:3 TV
is just nonsense. The picture will fill the screen, but everything
will look tall and skinny as it has not been stretched out wide
enough when displayed.

"The widescreen mode in Fur Fighters was added whilst checking it
on a Sony Widescreen TV"

OK.

"to keep the aspect ratio as close as possible to widescreen movies."

Now why do they have to do that?

"The vertical resolution has to drop to do this as you have a
maximum horizontal resolution of 640, so the vertical dropped
from 480 to 357 to create the borders required to achieve a letterbox 
effect."

Aha. Here's why. They're using letterboxed 4:3 output and *not*
anamorphic. An anamorphic picture has exactly the same number of
lines as a standard 4:3 picture, but they are intended to be stretched 
further apart on a 16:9 display. The `pixels' (there aren't really any in 
an analogue broadcast) are *wider*, so your 640 pixels in each line are 
rectangular instead of square.
Sounds like they've been doing their testing with the TV's zoom mode
instead of stretch. Doh!

They should take a look at a game that does it properly (ie Wacky
Races, Rayman 2), or set up a DVD player by telling it that the TV is
widescreen and seeing what happens when they connect it to a 4:3 TV
(everything looks tall and skinny - or rather squashed in from the
sides), then maybe they'll understand what anamorphic means.

"If you require any further information on this please contact me at this
address [email redacted]
 
Nick Wiswell
Associate Producer
Bizarre Creations"

I can't be bothered.

Try starting here: http://www.dvdweb.co.uk/information/anamorphic.htm
(though they've assumed that 1.85:1 is the same as 1.77:1 - most wide
TVs have so much overscan you never see the black bars with a 1.85:1
movie).
There are other (better) descriptions of what anamorphic means on the
net. Why don't you try asking in news:uk.media.dvd ? A subject line
such as ``What does anamorphic mean?'' should have the desired
results. 

Sound of me running quickly away:-)

--

Thanks for that and congratulations on a great game, I'm really enjoying Fur
Fighters.
Looks like MSR will be my next purchase as well. Back to the original
qustion though: why is the widescreen mode apparently in the cheat menu for
MSR?

----

"Nick Wiswell
Associate Producer
Bizarre Creations"

Aha, the guilty man - now you're for it ;) Why is the Widescreen setting
in MSR something you have to play half the game to win?!?!?! This is er,
strange.
I would really have liked their to be a widescreen option to have been
available from the beginning 8(
Still, ace game ;)

---

First I should say that I *love* Fur Fighters. It's a great game.
Playing the fluffmatch in the demo in a Toys 'R' Us months and months
ago convinced me I wanted a DC.
But the ``widescreen'' option is a regrettable mis-feature. It makes
nobody happy. And by the sounds of it it's because widescreen is
widely misunderstood. And that's perhaps to be expected as
broadcasters, TV manufacturers and DVD publishers have conspired to
make it as confusing as possible.

For example:

* Dreadful ``smart stretching'' modes on wide TVs (there are probably
hundreds if not thousands of people out there watching stretched
4:3 analogue broadcasts who are now convinced they are watching
widescreen TV).
* Wrongly labelled DVDs (that say enhanced for 16:9, but are not)
* 14:9 compromise broadcasts that don't fill *any* TV screen
* Nobody making it clear that the only source of (anamorphic)
widescreen material is DVD or digital TV (despite only a handful of
widescreen TVs having an integrated digital tuner)
* Widescreen meaning either letterboxed or anamorphic (or both)
* Legacy letterboxed widescreen material on VHS and analogue TV
broadcasts that mean your wide TV needs a `zoom' mode as well as
stretch.
* The irrational dislike of black bars (either at the top and bottom
or at the sides) when the aspect ratio of the material you are
watching does not match your display, leading to the above
mentioned `smart' stretch modes.
It's not widely understood that if you have a DVD player attached to
a 4:3 TV then your DVD player actually has to throw away nearly 25%
of the lines and fake up black borders at the top and bottom of the
screen if you watch an anamorphic disk. Some players do a good job
and interpolate a new set of lines, others just throw away every
fourth line and you get jaggy squashed looking pictures. I bet some
people have their DVD set up like that and then are using the zoom
mode on their wide TV and wondering why everyone says DVD is great
when it looks dreadful on their TV.

So I accept that the `widescreen' mis-feature in Fur Fighters (and by
the sounds of it MSR too) came about through lack of good information
about what anamorphic means and was an honest misunderstanding.
Damn. Someone handed me a coffee half way through that.

----

Geez. We are talking about anamorphic widescreen here.
In your widescreen modes you have to set your tv to 16:9 zoom mode. You'll
lose resolution as you just stated. In an anamorphic widescreen games the
resolution is still 640*480 but the image is squized. So the owners of the
widescreen tv's set their tv's stretch the image horizontally and you'll
have a full screen 16:9 game.
It's the same with dvd.
Try playing f355, toy commander or any other wide game on widescreen mode.
You won't have borders.
It's more processor intensive that way but certainly possible.
Looking forward to your reply on the matter.

----

I too then must apologise, as I am not 100% sure what the definition of
anamorphic Widescreen really is, maybe we should have called it "letterbox"
mode instead. (at least we did make the picture wider unlike some games we
could mention who do just either squish the picture or cut stuff off top and
bottom). The DC doesn't support widescreen per se so this is the only way we
could do it, and I got a bit pissed off because we had to spend ages
optimising the code to make it run smoothly with extra polys now visible at
the sides. The TV we tested it on did have a couple of annoying zoom modes,
but we only used the setting that didn't stretch the picture, just actually
cut off the top and bottom of the screen therefore removing the borders from
view.

Sorry for any ranting, glad you liked the game.

----

Here is a good "visual demo" of the whole widescreen/anamorphic thing,
after watching it most people go "ahhhhhhhh, I get it now". :)
http://www.dvdweb.co.uk/information/anamorphic.htm

---

Widescreen isn't something a console can support. It's in the games. And the
squishing you mention in some games is far better than the option in msr.
The squising (strange word) is anamorphic. You stretch it out on a widescreen
tv to get the correct ratio.

---

Having finally obtained this cheat, I thought that I'd be able to enjoy
correct ratios, even if there is a little cropped top and bottom , but
there's still a problem.
In my experience, the cheat is only active for one race - if you set it
to ON, do a race (where it is indeed widescreen), then return to the
cheat screen, the option is OFF again.
I can't believe this!! Do Bizarre really expect people to want to race
once in widescreen mode, just for fun, then return to normal play?
If anyone has had other experiences, let me know, but as it stands I
think it's ridiculous to have such a feature only available in this
way. As someone else says in this thread, are we expected to unlock
sound in a game using a cheat mode!!